France’s centrist President Macron ignited a firestorm for praising Nazi collaborator leader Philippe Pétain for his role in World War I. Historian Adam Hochschild speaks with TRNN’s Ben Norton about how war resisters are the real heroes who should be honored, as Trump visits Paris to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the end of WWI.
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In 1914 Europe was an armed camp. There had been numerous crises since 1900, Bosnia, the two Balkan Wars. Germany wanted to attack Russia before it fully recovered from the 1905 defeat from Japan. German militarism was toxic and had to be destroyed.
Pertain was a villain and Vichy was a collaborationist regime. Yesterday the fact that it was there allowed for a certain amount of resistance that was not available in Holland for example. In France the records in the state archives that listed religion were destroyed by resistance members in the buearacracy. 75% of the Jews survived. In holland the Germans took over the top of the state and found all the Dutch records including religion. Less than 20% of the Jews of Holland survived.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh14W7greTs
I really don't like Ben Norton's style of interview, which I have observed in other interviews. He has an eloquent author and historian replying to questions vividly, with keen explanations and photography, making clear the futility of the war and the heartlessness of the war's political and military leadership. Each reply by Hochschild gets only a parsimonious acknowledgement. To Adam Hochschild's comment on the celebration by today's leaders on Armistice Day, that he would like to see war resisters honored rather than those, like Pétain, who fought the war, all Norton could say was, "Yeah". To Hochschild's following reply about Pres Trump's snubbing the Peace Forum, Norton again gives us, "Yeah, and let's shift a little bit…" His "yeahs" are almost dismissive in their lack of reflection on the fine and comprehensive replies by Hochschild. Norton is wooden in demeanor, too focused on what he wants to go on to discuss. After a reply by Hochschild with poignant images detailing the ravages of colonialism by the US and by France, Norton responds with "Awright" and goes on to his summary question.  Unpleasant!
On the content of the interview, the questions asked by Norton and the quality of the replies by Hochschild, I have only praise.
Sorry Real News – whilst there's probably nothing further from my intentions than to play advocate for Macron (a person I find hard to endure to even look at)- yet I must call out that in my honest opinion your portrayal of Marshall Petain is very misleading!
Neither WWI nor WWII happened due to his misconduct. Yes he was a conservative elitist and yes, he collaborated with the Nazis but this rather out of a desire to preserve what ever was left of France than out of a whish to be a part of their masterrace project. Don't forget that for example when the wehrmacht occupied the rest of France in 1942 the french fleet in Toulon deliberately sunk itself in order to prevent capture by the Germans. Also as a commander in WWI he was known to be a rather cautious one that preferred a defensive strategy and was very reluctant to throw away large amounts of french soldiers in futile offensives as his contemporary collegues liked to do (the "Blutmuehle" of Verdun wasn't his idea). On the contrary – he faced harsh opposition and intrigue by his competitors in the french high command for just that (anyone ever heard of Robert Nivelle? Charles Mangin – the "mangeur of men"? – if not, you'd probaly like to look it up). France was fighting for its survival twice in this century. Twice Petain did what he saw best to deal with a situation, he was not calling for – and he was vital in turning the battle of Verdun into a french victory and it wasn't his fault that it was a costly one. If you want to seriously judge about that, you'd have to put yourself into his shoes. A good start would be to compare him with other men in his position at the time.
While I like Real News very much I must also say that within their realm there is a tendency of a selfproclaimed "political correctness" elite to snub its nose about the desperate deeds of others without any regard of the struggle the accused "perpetrators" might find themself in. Usually Real News manages to find a well balance in their reporting – that's why I prefer them compared to say "Democracy Now" or even (erk…) "the young Turks" – in this report you unfortunately don't live up to your own standards in my view.
Not a big surprise ! France was govern by Fascist during the German occupied
excellent point of view – honour the anti war voices. we must still do this with a strong voice.
France has issues… they have a problem with foreign fighters returning to France… but then who is the French Foreign Legion?
You can't commemorate WW1 and pretend Petain didn't exist.
See Stanley Kubrick's Paths of Glory
Comparing Trump and Pétain: strange thinking. No?
Kissing nazi 'culs' is a trend in Europe.
The French have always managed to write the history in their favour. After WW1 the vengeance of the French resulted in the Versailles-treaty….wich was the humiliating surrender off the Germans to the French’ British, Belgians….British, French, Belgian and American politicians understood that the treaty was so one sided and a clear expression of France’s thirst for revenge that it would lead to a new World War….wich happened.
In WW2 the French put up a decent fight in the first months but as soon as the French army was beaten by the German blitzkrieg….the French cut a deal and became willing allies of the Nazi’s’, under the reactionary leadership of Pétain and his Vichy regime.
As for me, I’m glad that here in Belgium (wich was destroyed even more than France during WW1) we decided a decade ago to change the name of streets and squares that were named after Pétain and Foch. The French reacted very emotional (always show, never trust French political theatre)and put a lot of pressure onto our politicians….but we changed the names anyway and removed the statues of those “heroes .away with them!!!
As for Macron…the former wonderboy of French politics is, economically, a heavily right-leaning politician of the classic conservative style. He promised a lot…and delivered nothing. And also in his case I would say “Away with himâ€
WARNINGâ— drama queen in drag.
I wish people would stop referring to Macron as "centrist". He was the far right candidate in France's election, to the right of Le Penn in all the ways that matter (ie economically). Anything in the policies of the likes of Macron that appears centrist or liberal is only there because there's potentially a buck in it for his donor class.
He did not praise him in this video; why the misleading headine? I expect better from Real News. He clearly states that there is not any special ceremony for Petain – it's for all French military marshalls in WW1, and that it's being held the was it always has been done (a blanket ceremony for all) since time of Jacque Chirac. Not to defend Macron, but he is not praising a Nazi collaborator in THIS video.
I'm Canadian and in my eyes the neoliberals are no better than neo-nazis. Sadly most conservative parties actually follow the same line as the neoliberal. History is repeating itself third world war will be in the very near future. I hope all these warmongers pay for what they've doing in the New World. And since I believe in God I hope God judges them properly. And in that case I hope they enjoy the pineapple daily
The Memories of the Men Dead at Verdun deserves to be remembered. Their commander was Petain, Vichy or otherwise.. you can’t talk about ww1 without Verdun
MOST OF THE SOLDIERS OF 14_18 WOULD HAVE GIVEN THEIR LIFE FOR THE MARECHAL PETAIN !
Perspective is everything and it helps when the table is large enough to accommodate all the pieces. Thanks RNN
You have forgotten that there was a dispute between Germany and France over
Alsace-Lorraine, territoiry that the Germans gained.
Adam Hochschild like all useful pundits chooses to look at the front puppets that are manipulated behind the scenes by the money and power brokers..listen to the corbett report for a more authentic and legit rendering of the true history of Europe in the late 19th century to the early 20th century