Cops Responding to Daniel Shaver Case | OFF THE CUFF: Special Edition

1. Obviously, we want you to hear us out in the video but we did ultimately boil this down to: the shooting itself may be justified but that the circumstances leading up to it were avoidable on both sides. This is a tragedy and we take no pleasure in the loss of this life at all. To take anything else away from this means you are refusing to listen to what we said. That's ok, it is what it is for ya.

   We think that blindly defending cops is a bad idea just as much as blindly hating them.

   Happy to answer legit questions (I've been trying to hit some in the comments). Thanks guys.

2. This is what military influence and training
   has done to police .

3. Tbh I feel like this dude was a really really really dumb drunk. Idk if he had problems in his life or what, but he definitely seems like he was inebriated into a state of extremely poor behavioral control. Pointing the gun out the window, sloppily responding to the officers commands. Really stupid guy who brought all of this on himself. I hate that they were so aggressive and convoluted in their commands but seriously man why would you reach back right after they told you not to. Bad drunk control bro. Party foul of the ultimate degree.

4. I just reenacted the scenario from the perspective of Daniel Shaver: crossing the ankles, hands above the head, crawling for 20 or so ft on my knees. It wasn't a fully representative reenactment, because a) I wasn't drunk, and b) I was not in a high stress environment with multiple cops pointing their guns at me, promising they'll kill me if I fail to obey their commands.

   I expected to be able to execute the instructions, and for the first five feet I did. But after five feet my knees started hurting because of my patellatendenitis. The onset of pain caused me to reflexively start falling forward, and in trying to balance myself I threw my hands back and to my sides, also reflexively. Maybe they weren't quite behind my back, maybe they were. But the bottom line is that the ways in which these cops handled this situation was not optimized for ensuring compliance – it was optimized for ensuring failure to comply. In other words, they were looking for an excuse to kill.

5. These cops defending this murder are beyond fucked in the head. And so are the ones responsible for the shootings.

   As to the rest of us, we need to treat every cop as a loose cannon – we can't afford to take any risks. If there's a cop you need to assume the man is out to kill you, so literally just drop anything you're holding, get down on the ground with your hands and feet spread. Don't try to obey any commands, just be quiet, lie there and secure all plausible deniability and do not give him an excuse to execute you, because given a chance he will

6. First of all: get to the damn point. 17 minutes is too long an intro.
   From my perspective, you guys are in the “cop bubble” you say other people are in. You think that if you speak like you’re always in court, defending crimes based on policy, training, and the ‘Monday morning QB’ argument people will see you as credible.
   I come from the right and vote R. You city cops are losing my support. What was the crime? You know the text of the Second Amendment. You take for granted your power to infringe the right of a guy to have a pellet gun, no crimes committed. You take for granted an insane, power tripping cop’s “right” to issue impossible and humiliating orders and execute when a drunk dude fails to comply.
   You take for granted the cop’s pure motives, even though he has “you’re fucked” on his dust cover. Why? On what evidence?
   Sure, it’s a hard job. Derek Chauvin was lynched by a mob.
   But there is no justification for this and your doing so shows you see the people you’re supposed to protect as an enemy. Maybe they are. But, again, I don’t trust you city cops anymore.

   And just as an irrelevant additive: Brailsford’s tattoos are very unprofessional. So are yours. Just an aesthetic preference but I don’t want to be policed by people who look like thugs.

7. If this is really a justified shooting, why was the body cam footage sealed and only released after the trial was over? I personally would have died in this situation because I cannot sit on my knees like that because of surgery. I'm probably biased though because it's my tax dollars paying for the murderer's pension. The pension he got after he was fired. Can we also talk about the friends in high places that Philip Brailsford has along with his history of violence against civilians? Like his father.

8. This was entirely unjustified. Cops are paid to deal with unruly people and to risk their lives. They deal with disorderly people all the time. A swat team in armor with ar 15's pointed at this kid shouldn't be scared or nervous. You shouldn't be a cop if you shoot at everyone who reaches for something. Sorry find another line of work. People are often drunk or high and can't follow complex commands. No excuse for this in my opinion. Just wait for the kid to make his way to you.

9. Legal justification is not valid. Justification is a moral dilemna. Of which this was not justified. This is an objective fact. Period. Had I been one of the other men in that room I would have shot the officer who killed him regardless of what happened to me.

   Why? Because it's justice in the truest sense. Murder begets murder.

10. What a load of shit, they had him laying down arms out, plenty of time to go to him, as far as the wall, at any time someone could have shot through the wall, why did they wait, the military would have had him in custody and the room cleared streight away, it's just bad training.
    They are a bunch of pussies.

11. Mike, I usually like your stuff but I can't sit here and listen to you justify a murder. That kid was dead the minute that dude started screaming at him.

12. it should only boil down to this: If the cops sober can follow 100% impossinle commands ( regarding hands) then is a good shoot, however if they fail in complying with the 100% impossible command then it is murder and nothing less.

13. Cops defend cops no matter what. The Gestapo did the same. The Nuremberg defence means nothing. You're all government enforcers and murderers and I take pleasure in watching you all die.

14. "Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy." —Jesus Christ
    Guess who probably won't be getting God's mercy.

15. I hate cops but this was justified…..homeboy reached.

16. I’m pro cop. I think cops are essential. I think most cops are good people. They Murdered that man in cold blood. No excuse for it. Every person involved should be tried for murder

17. Even though the office who shot shaver subtly smirked when he was acquitted, and it's not against the law to do so, it may indicate a flaw with his mental health and he should be evaluated. Also, there is ample documentation about excessive force being used by cops in Phoenix. Changes have been implemented after a DOJ evaluation but this "culture" might have influenced the officer. And anecdotally speaking, I feel officers in general have too much fear and that's not good when you have a gun. I wonder if there's a study on their fear level and how to reduce it, if it's a thing.

18. It's obvious they knew nobody else was in the room because they ran towards the body. Why would they do that if they thought another gunman was in the room?

19. I cannot seem to justify it and I know for a fact that if it was me I'd be dead period. #1. I have had a stroke but I am almost 100% mobile, however… #2 as a result I have balance issues but can do most things, definitely not what he is being asked. #3 minor-severe confusion that manifests through anxiety. Even being completely sober for almost 5 years I would have done the same thing so I definitely would be as good as dead. Even sitting here not in the situation I do not understand what the officer is trying to imply or how it is even physically possible for myself to carry out those sort of instructions just the ones I could even wrap my head around. I think the victim did a way better job than I could ever have done. I agree with you 99% of the time and I love your content Mike, this is definitely murder and doesn't even follow the rules of engagement. I would rather deal with the military than an officer like this.

20. The supervisor calling out the commands should be in prison for atleast 5 years

21. These low life illiterate cops took a life of a innocent man and they get to be with their families and innocent man has to die

22. I'm for the blue but that was wrong, really wrong . he had a long gun with a vest and helmet on, down and an empty hallway with a kid on his knees.

23. the sergeant is a sociopath. the whole encounter was a sadistic power trip.

24. The officer in charge, the one doing the shouting and Simon Saz commands, is former Sgt. Charles Langley (Mesa, AZ PD). Shooter is former Mesa PD Ofc. Mitch Brailsford. Both are guilty, both are criminals at large. Both deserve maximum punishment. Mesa PD needs to be decertified and disbanded. This is a malignant LE agency, a vile cancer that needs to be shut down.

25. This incident was when I lost any respect for police officers in our nation. When shooter was acquitted, I went from disrespect to outright haltered and contempt, and consider police officers to be the enemy. There is no other way . This was a cold blooded execution. Aided and abbeted by CJS after the fact.

26. i usually defend police shootings, but this one was wrong! this one is murder

27. Police were able to arrest the assassins of President Kennedy and Robert Kennedy, as well as armed and dangerous men like Son of , Sam in New York City as well as the armed suspects who shot up schools and churches without killing them. Those Daniel Shaver cops, like the Tony Timpa cops and the George Floyd cops have put good cops and people in general in grave danger There has been a tremendous increase in killings all around our country since. since the George Floyd killing video and similar killings of UNARMED people went viral.

28. They over-reacted from the beginning. If you get a call to a hotel that someone saw people carrying rifles, why would you immediately think they are criminals? I is not illegal if I am staying in a hotel to carry any weapon I have in my vehicle to my room. The real criminal is the one that called the cops in the first place. This was due to horrible training and that young cop that had "YOUR FUCKED" engraved on the bolt of hs AR just under the dust cover, was just itching to use it. The kid was drunk and his pants were falling off and the guy yelling was escalating the situation. Your not at war, this is not Iraq, dial it down. They should of moved in immediately when they were both on there face and been cuffed.

29. Nope. This is murder. Officers are trained, citizens are not. Your analysis is flawed. This is why defund police is happening now. BS holding the thin blue line is why cops get off and an innocent citizen WAS MURDERED!

30. Goddamn, get to it already.

31. People were able to restrain Sirhan, Sirhan, the alleged killer of Senator Robert Kennedy, until a cop arrived and put handcuffs on him, and police arrested Lee Harvey Oswald, after he had just shot another officer, and police arrested the Son of Sam 44 caliber killer, and Officer Syed Ali fought off 4 drunken vagrants without harming them. Police officers in England do not even carry guns and American cops are ambushed and killed at 10 times the rate of British officers. Officers like the Daniel Shaver cops have put all American police officers in danger.

32. in the end they killed a completely innocent man with 3 kids, escalated the entire thing to the point of manslaughter (not murder) …people are getting sick and tired of it…imagine if it were your brother, your son, your husband that was killed?…I dont see cops being real restrained when its one of theirs…then to deny any settlement to Shavers widow…and rehire Brailsford for disability…and retire the supervisor to the Phillipinnes where hes banging 15 yr old hookers on the states pension…was justice really served?

33. I just reenacted the scenario from the perspective of Daniel Shaver: crossing the ankles, hands above the head, crawling for 20 or so ft on my knees. It wasn't a fully representative reenactment, because a) I wasn't drunk, and b) I was not in a high stress environment with multiple cops pointing their guns at me, promising they'll kill me if I fail to obey their commands.

    I expected to be able to execute the instructions, and for the first five feet I did. But after five feet my knees started hurting because of my patellatendenitis. The onset of pain caused me to reflexively start falling forward, and in trying to balance myself I threw my hands back and to my sides, also reflexively. Maybe they weren't quite behind my back, maybe they were. But the bottom line is that the ways in which these cops handled this situation was not optimized for ensuring compliance – it was optimized for ensuring failure to comply. In other words, they were looking for an excuse to kill.

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